[Senate Hearing 119-96]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 119-96

                FUELING AMERICA'S MANUFACTURING COMEBACK
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                          AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP

                                 OF THE

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 21, 2025

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business and 
                            Entrepreneurship
                            
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                            

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________
                               
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
60-614                     WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
        
            COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                              ----------                              

                        JONI ERNST, Iowa, Chair
            EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts, Ranking Member
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
RAND PAUL, Kentucky                  JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina            CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
TODD YOUNG, Indiana                  CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
TED BUDD, North Carolina             JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah                 JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
JON HUSTED, Ohio
                Meredith West, Republican Staff Director
                 Sean Moore, Democratic Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                              MAY 21, 2025
                           Opening Statements

                                                                   Page
Joni Ernst, U.S. Senator from Iowa...............................     1
Edward J. Markey, U.S. Senator from Massachusetts................     2

                                Witness

The Honorable Kelly Loeffler, Administrator, U.S. Small Business 
  Administration.................................................     4
    Prepared Statement...........................................     7

              Additional Letters/Statements for the Record

Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act of 2025
    Letters of Support...........................................    30
Small Business for America's Future
    Recommendation Statement.....................................    45
U.S. Black Chambers, Inc.
    Letter for the Record........................................    46
Women Impacting Public Policy
    Statement, Submissions from Business Owners, and Chart of 
      DOGE Terminated Contracts Demographics Analysis............    49

                        Questions for the Record

The Honorable Kelly Loeffler
    Responses to Questions Submitted by Ranking Member Markey and 
      Senator Cantwell...........................................    54

 
                FUELING AMERICA'S MANUFACTURING COMEBACK

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, May 21, 2025

                      United States Senate,
                        Committee on Small Business
                                      and Entrepreneurship,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in 
Room 428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Joni Ernst, 
chairwoman of the committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Ernst [presiding], Young, Hawley, Curtis, 
Justice, Husted, Markey, Shaheen, Hirono, Rosen, and 
Hickenlooper.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST

    Chair. I call the committee on Small Business and 
Entrepreneurship to order. And I will begin with my statement, 
and we'll be joined by Senator Markey shortly.
    We are here today to discuss how the Small Business 
Administration, the SBA, can expand and support investment in 
our nation's small manufacturers. Last week, the committee 
examined how the Small Business Investment Company program 
could help channel more private capital into American 
manufacturing.
    To better understand the urgency of this situation, we need 
to take a closer look at the numbers. And let me tell you 
folks, this is staggering. Over the past 40 years, we did not 
simply lose manufacturing jobs: We witnessed the steady erosion 
of our industrial sector to China's delight and advantage. Over 
the last 25 years in Iowa alone, we have lost nearly one in six 
manufacturing jobs.
    American manufacturing employment has fared even worse over 
the last 40 years, falling by 28 percent, and reaching depths 
we haven't seen since 1946. Only 3.7 percent of Americans are 
employed in manufacturing today, half the share we had 40 years 
ago and barely a third of our peak in the late '60s. To put 
that in perspective, there are nearly twice as many people 
working in state and local governments than on the factory 
floor. This is not simply an economic decline; it is a 
hollowing out.
    The steady loss of skills, infrastructure, and investment 
in manufacturing, undermines our ability to innovate and scale 
new technologies, leaving our homeland weakened and vulnerable. 
The reason for this is not a mystery. Government policies that 
encouraged offshoring production, without regard for the long-
term damage done to our domestic productive capacity.
    Today, the consequences are visible in every corner of 
America. Shuttered plants, decaying factories, and empty 
parking lots stand as monuments to the multi-generational 
disintegration of hard-earned knowledge, talent, and tradition 
that once formed the bedrock of our nation.
    But here's the good news. We have a President and SBA 
Administrator who understand what is at stake. They recognize 
the size and complexity of the work needed to revitalize 
American manufacturing and are committed to rebuilding our 
industrial strength from the ground up.
    As we discussed during last week's hearing, the SBIC 
program will continue to play its vital role in expanding our 
productive capacity by facilitating private investment and 
through federal partnerships like that between the SBA and the 
Department of Defense's, newly established Office of Strategic 
Capital, something I championed in the annual defense bill. But 
that is only the beginning; we must do more.
    Today, we welcome Administrator Loeffler to discuss the 
SBA's Made in America manufacturing initiative and the efforts 
underway to support the small businesses that make up 98 
percent of our nation's manufacturing base. Part of that effort 
involves the Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act, which I 
was proud to introduce last month alongside Senator Coons.
    This bipartisan legislation would double the SBA backed 
loan limit from $5 million to $10 million, for small 
manufacturers who need that capital to modernize, grow, and 
train the next generation of American workers. That investment 
will have a meaningful impact across the entire supply chain, 
because the smallest startups to the largest firms all rely on 
small manufacturers to get the job done.
    Revitalizing our industrial base and reclaiming our ability 
to make things in America starts with small businesses. We must 
ensure that cutting edge innovation and high-speed, high-
quality production happens right here at home, not overseas. If 
we are serious about competing with and beating China, creating 
good paying jobs, and restoring economic resilience, we must 
empower our small manufacturers to lead the way. This 
bipartisan legislation takes a bold step in that direction.
    I'm grateful that we're joined today by Administrator 
Loeffler, and I look forward to hearing from her how Congress 
can better equip the SBA to invest in the industrial 
revitalization of America.
    And with that, now I recognize Ranking Member Markey for 
his opening statement.

                  STATEMENT OF SENATOR MARKEY

    Senator Markey. Thank you, Madam Chair, Administrator 
Loeffler--committee where you touted the soon to come golden 
age for small businesses. We have seen an unprecedented assault 
by the Trump Administration on Main Street. Here's how the 
golden age of Trump is going.
    The cost of manufacturing supplies has increased by 17 
percentage points since President Trump's inauguration, 
according to the Institute for Supply Management. The National 
Small Business Associations May Economic Report, found that the 
number of small business owners confident in their business 
financial future fell to the lowest point in the survey's 16-
year history.
    The Wall Street Journal Small Business CEO Confidence Index 
released April 25th, reported that 57 percent of small 
businesses and their owners believe the economy has gotten 
worse, a staggering 43 points higher than January. The 
University of Michigan's May Survey of Consumers, the benchmark 
study for consumer confidence, saw the second lowest level ever 
recorded. That's in May of this year. And Americans now believe 
prices will increase by 7.3 percent in the next year, the 
highest inflation expectation since 1981.
    For the Small Business Administrator, unfortunately, the 
golden age of the promised gains has turned into the dark age 
of certain pain, that small businesses are now suffering. All 
of this is a direct result of President Trump's self-inflicted 
economic disaster. Trump's destructive, chaotic, and 
thoughtless tariff policies are turning Main Street into Pain 
Street.
    Last week we heard from a hundred percent small business 
U.S. manufacturer located in Akron, Ohio testifying before the 
committee. She said, ``Without immediate relief from the 
tariffs and ensuing trade war, U.S. manufacturing companies 
like mine will not survive the summer.'' Small businesses are 
being forced to shut their doors because of President Trump's 
destructive tariffs. Consumer confidence levels are taking an 
historic nose dive that is happening day after day.
    And costs are skyrocketing. Walmart just announced it was 
raising its prices over tariffs, so you can only imagine how 
the Trump tariffs are crushing mom and pop stores across the 
nation. Small business owners' pleas for help are falling on 
deaf ears, as the President tells them to prepare for short-
term pain. Well, many of these businesses aren't going to 
survive this so-called short-term pain.
    Even the National Chamber of Commerce agrees with me on 
this. Last month, the National Chamber of Commerce followed my 
lead and called on the Trump administration to develop a tariff 
exclusion process to prevent, ``irreparable harm'' to small 
businesses. Because these calls have gone unheeded by the 
Administration, I introduced a Small Business Liberation Act 
two weeks ago, and I will be seeking unanimous consent today on 
the Senate floor to provide necessary relief to small 
businesses across our country from this tariff regime.
    Ninety-seven percent of all businesses who engage in trade 
are small businesses. So, I will make the motion for my bill 
out on the Senate floor today to exempt those small businesses 
from the tariffs, so that they can in fact survive. The 
Administration has no credibility when it comes to having the 
backs of our economy's backbone--small businesses.
    To add fuel to the fire, the President has proposed a 
draconian 33 percent cut to the Small Business Administration's 
budget. The proposed budget eliminates longstanding bipartisan 
programs such as SCORE Mentoring Services and the State Trade 
Expansion Program. It would shut down more than 150 Women's 
Business Centers. It would ask programs that foster our 
innovation and technology sectors, SBA's Veteran Outreach 
Programs, which help 58,000 former members of the military use 
their skills to start new enterprises last year, would be cut 
by 46 percent.
    The thoughtless and business-killing policies are crushing 
our nation's entrepreneurs. I hope this hearing holds the 
Administration accountable and helps Congress to stop the chaos 
and the confusion for America's 34 million small businesses. 
Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member Markey. And again, I want 
to extend a warm welcome to Administrator Loeffler and thank 
her for appearing to testify today.
    Ms. Loeffler is the 28th administrator of the U.S. Small 
Business Administration. Prior to her time serving in the 
administration, she served as the U.S. Senator from Georgia and 
had an over three-decade career in the financial services and 
technology industries. This included her time as a member of 
the Executive Leadership team at Intercontinental Exchange, 
which she helped grow from a small startup to a Fortune 500 
company.
    Administrator Loeffler earned her bachelor's degree from 
the University of Illinois, College of Commerce, and an MBA 
from DePaul University Graduate School of Business. I ask 
unanimous consent that Administrator Loeffler's full statement 
be included in the record. Without objection, so ordered.
    And with that Administrator Loeffler, again, welcome to the 
committee. You are recognized for five minutes for your 
testimony.

STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE KELLY LOEFFLER, ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. 
         SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, WASHINGTON, DC

    Senator Loeffler. Thank you and good morning. Chair Ernst, 
Ranking Member Markey, Members of the Committee: I'm so honored 
to join you today as we take historic action to rebuild 
American industry, bring back American jobs and restore our 
economic independence.
    The Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act of 2025 will 
do exactly that. By doubling our 7(a) and 504 loan caps for 
small manufacturers representing the first SBA loan limit 
increase in more than a decade--this bill will supercharge the 
return of American manufacturing, empowering job creators with 
needed capital to onshore production and rebuild critical 
supply chains.
    These firms represent 99 percent of all manufacturers in 
the U.S. and they are critical across every industry, from 
aerospace, defense and agriculture to electronics, 
transportation, and chips. They build the parts that power our 
economy and equip our military and sustain our industrial 
strength.
    Thanks to President Trump's fair trade, pro-growth, 
economic agenda, demand for American goods is rising and small 
manufacturers are stepping up to meet it. In just the first 
hundred days, the SBA has seen manufacturing loan approvals 
increase by 74 percent in our 7(a) loan program compared to the 
start of President Biden's term. Our producers are hiring 
again, investing again, and growing again, but they're ready to 
do more.
    Over the last four months through the SBA's new Made in 
America Manufacturing Initiative, our agency has met with more 
than 300 small manufacturers. Access to capital is one of the 
most consistent concerns I hear no matter what district, 
industry, or state I travel to.
    The Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act of 2025 is 
about ending our reliance on adversaries like China. It's about 
forging a stronger, more resilient economy powered by American 
workers, and it's about unleashing the full power of the 
private sector to rebuild American industry from the ground up 
in every state across our nation. I'm so grateful to our House 
and Senate leaders for introducing this critical and timely 
bipartisan legislation. Because delivering opportunity to 
American workers and industry is a very unifying objective.
    With our nation poised for even greater prosperity and 
opportunity in the months to come, now is the time to meet the 
moment. Since January, President Trump has cut core inflation 
to its lowest level since 2021. He's secured over $10 trillion 
in private sector investment. He's delivered more than a half 
million new jobs while deregulating after the last four years 
of massive bureaucratic expansion. And he has brought dozens of 
countries, including China, back to the negotiating table for 
fair trade deals.
    Our economy is spring loaded for growth, especially on Main 
Street, and I'm pleased to report that the SBA has never been 
more prepared to help small businesses lead the America first 
economic comeback.
    When we arrived, the SBA was bloated and dysfunctional, 
weighed down by a work from home bureaucracy that promoted a 
partisan political agenda. The Biden Administration presided 
over unprecedented levels of fraud and four straight years of 
failed audits. Our flagship 7(a) loan program was mismanaged to 
the tune of $400 million in negative cash flow in just one 
year.
    Oversight and accountability had broken down along with any 
sense of fiscal responsibility to taxpayers. Common sense had 
left the building along with our workforce. That era is over 
and it is a new day at the SBA.
    I come to this role with three decades of private sector 
experience, building small businesses and helping them grow. I 
quickly set out about streamlining operations, enhancing 
accountability, and ensuring that small businesses had the 
resources they need to thrive.
    After reviewing the agency's financials and operating 
metrics, we launched a full-scale reorganization to right size 
the SBA back to pre-pandemic staffing levels. We've shifted 
resources that had been consolidated in Washington back out 
into the field among our 68 district offices and local 
communities. We canceled wasteful contracts for total savings 
of more than $3 billion. I'm proud that we're working alongside 
the DOGE team, who are not partisans, but patriots and business 
leaders who care about the future of this great nation.
    We also took urgent action to restore the financial 
integrity of our core loan programs by reinstating lender fees 
and restoring underwriting standards, eliminating the ``Do What 
You Do'' criteria, that had put taxpayers on the hook for 
billions of dollars. And we implemented new identity and 
citizenship verification protocols to ensure that loans only go 
to eligible businesses, not illegal aliens, or fraudsters.
    We made it a top priority to depoliticize this agency, and 
end the era of picking winners and losers based on race or 
ideological beliefs--replacing our nation's strong tradition of 
free enterprise instead. We eliminated DEI mandates, terminated 
the Green Lender Initiative, and withdrew SBA from voter 
registration schemes. And we began relocating SBA offices out 
of sanctuary cities that refuse to enforce federal immigration 
law.
    At the same time, we're helping rebuild American industry 
through the SBA's Made in America Manufacturing Initiative. 
We're backing the legislation to give small manufacturers 
additional capital. And just yesterday we introduced a first-
of-its-kind Onshoring Portal to help small businesses find 
American-made supply chains and partners.
    The results are immediate and measurable. In our first 
hundred days, SBA loan approvals have skyrocketed by 80 
percent, compared to the same time under the last 
Administration. Loans to the smallest businesses, meaning those 
with five or fewer employees nearly doubled. And the share of 
federal contracts going to small businesses is up to 23 percent 
from just 18 percent when we came into office.
    With new opportunity and strong economic agenda at hand, 
demand for capital is up. Businesses are growing and confidence 
is rising across the country. I'm proud to say that this is not 
the SBA of the past. It is a stronger, leaner engine for free 
enterprise, and it's one that supports American industry, 
respect for taxpayer dollars and one that delivers results.
    We're no longer supporting the globalist bureaucrats and 
partisan political interests, but the small defense 
manufacturers, the local construction companies, and the tech 
company founders who along with all the others, are putting 
everything on the line to live the American dream.
    Alongside President Trump, we're empowering small 
businesses to lead America's industrial comeback. Now, Congress 
has an opportunity to supercharge that comeback with new 
capital that will help make us stronger, more independent, and 
more resilient than ever before.
    The Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act of 2025 
builds on what we've accomplished to date and sends a clear 
signal that this country is serious about rebuilding its 
manufacturing base, jobs, and supply chains. It's simple, it's 
responsive, and it delivers exactly what job creators and our 
lenders have been asking for.
    Thank you again, Chair Ernst and Chairman Williams in the 
house, for your leadership. And I ask all of you for your 
favorable consideration, and I look forward to working with you 
as we get this bill passed.
    Thank you so much and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Hon. Loeffler follows.]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Chair. Thank you very much, Administrator Loeffler. Now we 
will move into our rounds of questions and I now recognize 
myself for five minutes of questions. So, Administrator 
Loeffler, people will be coming and going as we have different 
committees' meetings. So, thank you for your patience.
    Shoring up domestic production of critical goods is vital 
to America's economic and national security. I've been pleased 
to work with you and President Trump on SBA's Made in America 
manufacturing initiative.
    As I described in my opening statement, I introduced the 
Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act, along with Senator 
Chris Coons and House Small Business Committee Chairman, Roger 
Williams, to increase the SBA backed loan limit from five to 
$10 million for small manufacturers in the 7(a) and 504 loan 
programs. Why are higher loan limits necessary to grow our 
manufacturing capacity here in America?
    Senator Loeffler. Chair Ernst, thank you for your question 
and I'm grateful for your leadership on a bipartisan bill and 
hope that we can earn the support of the entire committee given 
the importance. What we've seen as I've traveled the country 
meeting with hundreds of small manufacturers, which by the way, 
manufacturers under 500 employees represent about half of our 
productive capacity in America. What I'm hearing is, access to 
capital is critical, and particularly as we open export 
markets, those longer lead cycles are going to require more 
capital.
    But the facts are, we haven't raised loan limits for about 
15 years. And so, what we've seen is the ability for small 
businesses to access capital is great through our 7(a) and 504 
loan programs, but it's limited by that $5 million cap. And 
factories want to invest more in capital equipment. They want 
to hire, they want to bring on more manufacturing staff, a 
skilled workforce, which is critical to them.
    They're certainly focused on investing in America and 
grateful to President Trump for his leadership in restoring 
fair trade so that they can produce more. But access to capital 
is the number one concern we hear, not just as we talk to 
lenders who have seen the constraints firsthand with their 
manufacturing base, which is growing in America. But we've 
heard it firsthand.
    And I've heard manufacturers say that they already have the 
machines planned that they will purchase when they can get that 
access to capital and hopefully when this tax bill passes as 
well. So, I look forward to working with this committee to 
ensure that these loan limits are expanded.
    Chair. Thank you. And I do hear that as I'm traveling 
across Iowa as well and during my time here on the committee, 
that access to capital is one of the most significant impacts 
on those small businesses.
    So, in my letter to President Trump on January 21st of this 
year, I wrote about the challenges facing the SBA and I noted 
that the 7(a) loan program was severely mismanaged by the 
previous Administration, resulting in rising defaults that 
threaten the future of the program. And I know that you 
inherited a mess over at SBA and I appreciate how hard you have 
been working to right the ship.
    Can you tell us what reforms you have made at the agency to 
assure us that these new, larger manufacturing loans won't 
result in losses that must be covered by American taxpayers?
    Senator Loeffler. Thank you for the question, Chair Ernst. 
I come out of three decades of private sector experience, much 
of it in financial services and risk management. So that was 
one of the first questions I asked when I came into the agency. 
What is the status of risk management in this agency? I was 
frankly, alarming to see what had been done to the 7(a) program 
under the ``do what you do'' standard operating procedure.
    We looked at the rising delinquencies and defaults that 
were happening in that program that had ramped up our 
delinquency rates. And we quickly got to working with the 
industry and small businesses to reign in that SOP and have 
established the SOP back to what it was prior to the ``Do what 
you Do'' standard. We've heard tremendous feedback from lenders 
and borrowers alike because they now have guardrails, and we 
are reigning in that reckless lending program that happened 
under the Biden Administration.
    So, my focus is going to be continuing to evaluate the loan 
programs to ensure that they're sound, that they continue to 
operate at zero subsidy, meaning no cost to our taxpayers. 
Unfortunately, the four-year cohort under the Biden 
Administration looks like it will have loan losses of $2.2 
billion, putting taxpayers on the hook for sloppy underwriting 
and it's unacceptable.
    To ensure that we don't go back to that, we evaluated the 
manufacturing loans, which the Biden Administration you know--
we've doubled what the Biden Administration has done almost in 
terms of manufacturing loans. We've looked at the performance 
at the highest ends in terms of the outstanding loan size. 
Those are some of the best performing loans because those 
lenders and borrowers have skin in the game, and those tend to 
go to plant expansions.
    And so, we've done some back testing on this. We've tested 
also the fee levels to ensure that the fee levels are 
sufficient and that the loan programs don't go against the 
zero-subsidy mandate that we have from Congress. So, I feel 
very good about the program and look forward to demonstrating 
that performance.
    Chair. Thank you. And I love that you said no more sloppy 
underwriting, and I truly appreciate it. Thank you. 
Administrator. Next, we will move to Ranking Member Markey for 
his questions.
    Senator Markey. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ambassador 
Loeffler, you called Trump's tariffs the single greatest 
salvation for small businesses, and said that small businesses 
are grateful for tariffs. So, do you acknowledge that Trump's 
tariffs raise costs for small businesses that are jeopardizing 
their livelihoods and their employees? That's what I'm hearing.
    Senator Loeffler. Ranking Member Markey, thank you for your 
question. This President is fighting for the American worker 
and American industry, and what we're seeing is that President 
Trump's entire economic agenda is counter inflationary, and 
tariffs have been imposed against our small business unfairly, 
tariff and non-tariff trade barriers. Disadvantaging not only 
our small businesses but our workers who have----
    Senator Markey. In the short term the tariffs increased 
costs for small businesses in the United States.
    Senator Loeffler. No, Ranking Member Markey, they have not. 
Core inflation for two months in a row, have fallen to four-
year lows and under President Trump's first administration in 
2017, we have record low inflation.
    Senator Markey. I'm talking about small businesses, have 
they increased it for small businesses? The cost?
    Senator Loeffler. No, that's not what we're seeing at all 
in the field effect. What we're seeing is that small businesses 
are investing as evidenced by the 80 percent increase in loan 
volume compared to the prior Administration. So, we see small 
businesses investing----
    Senator Markey. There's not an 80 percent, there's not been 
an 80 percent increase from January 20th to today in 
investment. That is absolutely inaccurate. Saying that is 
absolutely not accurate. So, I just want to tell you from 
here's what I heard----
    Senator Loeffler. Loan volume for small business lending--
--
    Senator Markey. Is absolutely not true. Here's what I've 
heard from small businesses in Massachusetts. A small coffee 
shop and Chatham is worried rising costs will drive customers 
to bigger businesses. A toy designer in North Andover 
furloughed staff and is hesitant to place new orders, not 
knowing what tariff policy will be in a few weeks.
    A 100 percent U.S. electric bike manufacturer in Boston is 
considering entirely shuttering their doors because of the 
increased supply cost. And these are not just anecdotes.
    A recent survey conducted by CNBC showed that 70 percent of 
small business owners expect a recession and almost 60 percent 
are concerned about tariffs harming their businesses. So again, 
Administrator Loeffler, what do you say to worried businesses 
like these? How is SBA helping these small businesses getting 
crushed by the Trump tariffs?
    Senator Loeffler. This President is making sure that small 
businesses are never again put in the position of relying on 
the Chinese Communist Party to manufacture their goods and 
services. We saw during 2020, during COVID, the excessive 
reliance we have on the Chinese Communist Party.
    I suspect manufacturers at home are delighted to hear that 
this President is fighting for them. I've certainly heard that 
with the hundreds of manufacturers I've walked on the floors 
with since I've been in this job. They are thrilled this 
President is fighting for them. And I've heard firsthand----
    Senator Markey. I'm going to give you another. When a 
witness last week sitting right where you are, Julie Robbins, 
who was an owner of EarthQuaker devices, a 100 percent USA 
based manufacturer, told us that when she asked SBA for help 
with alternative domestic suppliers, SBA offered her a product 
that costs 17 times more than her current supplier. She cannot 
take on more debt. She doesn't want more debt, small businesses 
don't want more debt, and the sustained losses would likely 
prevent her from getting an additional loan, even with a 
perfect credit score.
    And Julie is now considering offshoring manufacturing. So, 
SBA should be supporting our small businesses, making sure they 
can continue to manufacture in the U.S. not encouraging 
offshore manufacturing. Let me just ask one quick question----
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, can I just add that we yesterday 
announced the Make Offshoring Great Again Portal that connects 
small businesses to 1 million onshore production facilities. 
And this is the first of kind, ever.
    Senator Markey. Well, again, the example we had last week 
was 17 times----
    Senator Loeffler. Well, this is for all small businesses 
now to explore, for the first time ever using tools available 
to the private sector that we've made free of cost to the small 
businesses.
    Senator Markey. Let me ask one final question. Has DOGE had 
access to personal or sensitive small business information on 
SBA?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, I've been very pleased to work 
with DOGE. They are complying with all laws. They are----
    Senator Markey. Have they had access to a personal or 
sensitive small business information?
    Senator Loeffler. No, Senator.
    Senator Markey. They have not had access?
    Senator Loeffler. No.
    Senator Markey. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair. Okay. And just for clarification Administrator 
Loeffler, I believe you said that that 80 percent increase was 
in SBA lending to small businesses, right through the 7(a) loan 
program.
    Senator Loeffler. Correct.
    Chair. So, could you restate that again so that we hear you 
clearly?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes. The increase in small business 
lending through the SBA's 7(a) loan program compares the first 
hundred days of President Trump's Administration to the first 
100 days of the Biden Administration.
    Chair. I think that's what I thought you said, thank, you.
    Senator Markey. Are you comparing that to the final three 
months of the Biden Administration?
    Chair. She just clarified, right?
    Senator Markey. No, she did not. No, she didn't.
    Chair. She just did. While you were visiting, would you 
please restate?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes. The loan data for the SBAs 7(a) loan 
program relates to an 80 percent increase in loan volume for 
President Trump's first hundred days compared to President 
Biden's first hundred days.
    Senator Markey. Right. But that is unfair because he was in 
the middle of the recession that he had just inherited from 
Trump loan.
    Senator Loeffler. Loan volumes is up----
    Senator Markey. The only fair comparison is the last 90 
days of Biden and the first 90 days of Trump. Okay, so that 
number 80 percent is completely irrelevant.
    Senator Loeffler. Your loan volume is up to----
    Chair. So, she was giving statistics and I appreciate those 
statistics. So next we will move to Senator Hickenlooper for 
five minutes of questions. You are recognized.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Madam Chair. I was a small 
business person; I had an SBA loan. What is the average length 
of process for a loan? So, when I did, it took about a year, 11 
and a half months. My understanding is it takes about eight to 
12 months now?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, first of all, thank you for your 
leadership in small businesses. I commend all of our small 
business leaders for what they do for Main Streets. I will say 
that the loan process has improved because we've restrengthened 
the SOP back to what it was, making it more predictable for our 
lenders.
    Senator Hickenlooper. No, I get that. And I admire that and 
I admit that, but you're giving us statistics of the first 
hundred days and saying you've given all these loans, got 
completed, those loans were all started under Biden. And when 
loan--if you look at Biden's first hundred days, those loans 
were all started by President Trump in his previous 
administration.
    So, to say that they're up 80 percent is flipped. In other 
words, those loans take at least six months to close. So, your 
closing loans that were started by Biden and he was trying to 
close loans, a lower number that were started under Trump.
    Senator Loeffler. But these are actually based on closings. 
No small business would close on a loan that they didn't 
believe that could invest and grow in their business. So, the 
closing rate during the term is incredibly important. It's a 
vote of confidence. No small business is going to take out a 
loan if they don't believe the conditions would support its 
improvement.
    Senator Hickenlooper. The number of closings, I appreciate 
that. But the number of closings is based on how much work has 
gotten and how many you've got in the pipeline. And that all 
happened in the previous Administration.
    I worry also, like Senator Markey in terms of the cost of 
tariffs to small business, as all I hear about when I'm in 
Colorado is that they can't find--it's not just the components 
of what they're putting together, their entire supply chain is 
at risk. And again, raising the caps on the 7(a), I think 
that's a great thing, but that mostly helps larger small 
businesses. The little guys are struggling and took me four 
years before I was able to qualify for an SBA loan.
    We've got a lot of outdoor recreation industry in Colorado. 
It's really all across the country now. It's a $1.2 trillion 
industry. And they're kind of freaking out. If you look at the 
running, hiking, hunting, fishing boating, kayaking, you know, 
so much of that industry and it's a very broad industry, but a 
lot of it is apparel and footwear.
    And when you talk to almost every one of them, they're 
largely manufactured in Asia, not so much in China anymore. 
They're manufactured in Vietnam and Cambodia and Bangladesh. I 
mean, people moving away from China like crazy over the last 
number of years, last six or eight years. The margins are too 
thin to really genuinely imagine we're going to bring back both 
the supply chain and the actual manufacturing in the United 
States, that the margins are paper thin.
    And it seems like a more useful thing to do would be to 
work with the Caribbean, you know, what they call CAFTA but 
it's the trade association with the Caribbean or with either 
Mexico or Canada, more likely Mexico for some of this, you 
know, footwear and apparel. Is that something you see in the 
future?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, what I see in the future is 
advocating for American jobs and American industry, which is 
exactly what President Trump is doing. This is why small towns, 
like I'm from a town of 600, have been hollowed out because of 
the loss of manufacturing. You may not think a job making socks 
is a good job. I just met a manufacturer last night at a small 
business round table. They love their job; they love their 
factory. It's a small factory. They do great things. Its 
textiles made in America.
    We have microchips being made in America now. We can make 
things in America. And this narrative that we can't make things 
here affordably is absolutely demonstrably false. And it's not 
about big manufacturers. I've been to great manufacturers with 
less than 50 employees who will benefit from this upsize loan.
    Senator Hickenlooper. No, I get it. I am a small business 
person. I am born of and I am part of that ilk. But everyone I 
talk to is in a state of terror that they feel they will not be 
able to get through this whatever is 18 months. It could be two 
years, four years. When you're looking at, even if we go to a 
10 percent tariff for truly small businesses, that is an 
unsupportable burden. It puts their entire business at risk.
    It something in many cases, have worked their whole lives 
to get the opportunity to start and to create. And now suddenly 
they're going to get the rug pulled out from under them for 
something they have no control over.
    And I'm not sure I see the benefit of that 10 percent 
tariff, which essentially, it's got to be paid in raising 
prices or lowering your sales. You're not just going to have to 
raise enough prices and accept the fact that you're going to 
have those lower sales in either case, the public's going to 
pay for one way or another. Either have less things to buy or a 
higher cost. And to what purpose? Right? To do a big tax cut, 
I'm not sure. I don't see the benefit.
    Chair. Thank you. If you'd like to respond to, 
Administrator?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes. Our small businesses have been the 
victims of unfair trade policy for decades. They have had to 
compete against unfair non-tariff and tariff trade barriers. We 
have to level the playing field. It's absolutely fair to them. 
But the number one thing I hear right now is small businesses 
need Congress to pass this tax reform, this tax cut bill.
    And that is the number one thing--small businesses, that 
would be an immediate tax increase that would raise taxes on 
small businesses higher than what small businesses in China pay 
the Chinese Communist Party. So that is the number one thing I 
hear. I understand there are short term impacts during this 
critical period of negotiation, with 75 countries that is going 
to make trading fair for all. And these small manufacturers are 
delighted that they're finally going to be able to compete on a 
level playing field.
    Chair. Okay, thank you, Senator Hickenlooper. And thank you 
for mentioning socks. We do make socks in one of my very small 
rural Iowa towns and--you have a sock manufacturer?
    Senator Hickenlooper. We have a socks manufacturing, Smart 
war.
    Chair. And I will now recognize Senator Hirono for five 
minutes.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair. The SBA is one of 
the smallest administrative agencies. Isn't that the case?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Hirono. So, since this administration took office 
in January, how many people have either been fired or left SBA?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, I'm very pleased to say that we 
are streamlining and unifying this agency----
    Senator Hirono. How many people have left or resigned?
    Senator Loeffler. We are taking it back to the size that it 
was during the first Trump administration. The agency had 
doubled in size in headcount during COVID, and yet 90 percent 
of the staff was working from home. And so what we found when--
--
    Senator Hirono. Can you please gimme some numbers, madam?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes, Senator. So currently we're looking 
at approximately 43 percent staff reduction, which brings us 
back to the size that the agency was during the first Trump 
administration.
    Senator Hirono. I'm just getting percentages. I'd really 
like to know the numbers that you're talking about.
    Senator Loeffler. So right now, we're looking at roughly 
2,700 staff reductions.
    Senator Hirono. 2,700. So, it is really a very small 
agency, and you're about to embark on these small manufacturers 
effort and that's going to take staffing. And in fact, isn't it 
the plan to further reduce your employee base? You're cutting 
another 43 percent from the SBA personnel?
    Senator Loeffler. Well, Senator, I've been in the job about 
three months. We'll continue to evaluate the agency, but the 
beauty of this agency is it is a public-private partnership 
with our lenders, over a thousand lenders across the country 
that deliver our loans. So, it's a very scalable agency, and it 
had doubled during COVID.
    We no longer are running COVID origination loan programs. 
So, the staffing--we had customer service representatives that 
were costing us roughly 50 million a year--who had two hours of 
work a day, hours.
    Senator Hirono. Madam Administrator, Senator Loeffler, you 
know, the point I am making is that if any of the initiatives 
that you are announcing, we'll take personnel. And at the same 
time, as you're pursuing these initiatives and looking at your 
7(a) loan program, and you have a President who wants to shove 
the student loan program, which is over a trillion dollars in 
student loans, 43 million people who are borrowers into your 
small shop.
    It's kind of mind boggling to think that you're going to be 
able to do all this. Another question, is it your testimony 
that the confusion surrounding President Trump's on again, off 
again, tariff decisions is going to help small businesses? Is 
that your testimony?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes, Senators. President Trump is the 
first President to fight small businesses for mainstream----
    Senator Hirono. That's all I need. So, when I hear from 
small businesses in my community that it is because of the 
tariffs, that there's so much uncertainty in their businesses 
that they believe that there are actually going to get hurt. 
You have Walmart saying that they're going to need to charge 
higher prices because of the negative impact of these tariffs. 
They're deluding themselves that actually the President Trump's 
on again, off again, tariff decisions are actually going to 
help them. So, all these small businesses contacting us to say 
that they're actually being heard, they're deluding themselves. 
Is that your view?
    Senator Loeffler. It's not to overlook. There could be 
short term impacts. The biggest change with tariffs is we're 
going to be able to compete on a level playing field based on 
the 400 pages by the U.S. trade rep----
    Senator Hirono. Sadly, excuse me, and President Trump can 
say all he wants, these are short-term impacts. But that is not 
the view held by most economists and other people. There will 
be long term negative impacts on----
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, we lost 5 million jobs across 
this country due to hollowing out of our manufacturing. Thank 
you.
    Chair. Now I recognize Senator Hawley for five minutes of 
questions.
    Senator Hawley. It's great to see you again, Administrator. 
Would you like to get a word in there? I'm happy to allow you 
to actually finish the sentence. Go ahead.
    Senator Loeffler. I'll rest my case. Thank you. [Laughter.]
    Senator Hawley. Probably wise. Let me ask you about 
something that's happening in Missouri that's very important to 
us. As you probably are aware, we've had very significant 
tornado damage across the state, including in St. Louis. I was 
just on the ground there for most of the day on Monday. Walking 
the streets, talking to folks in neighborhoods. The damage is 
very, very extensive. We're going to need help across the 
board.
    And I'm asking you, because one of the most important 
services I think that SBA provides, is disaster relief. Often 
the form of loans to businesses that have been affected by 
natural disasters. Can you just talk to us a little bit about 
the nature of those loans, of that program and what, for 
instance, my constituents might be able to get help with?
    Senator Loeffler. Absolutely. Thank you, Senator. And your 
constituents in Missouri and frankly, the entire region that 
was impacted are in my prayers. And our team is already on the 
ground in that region to ensure that we are part of, while 
we're not a response agency, we're a recovery and resilience 
agency, and we are going to be there for your constituents.
    First of all, in fiscal 2025 as you know, the disaster 
relief funds ran out, and it was a great surprise to Congress 
that this agency did not alert this committee or others they 
were running out of disaster relief funds. Under my watch, that 
will never happen again.
    And right now, we are making sure of that by ensuring that 
we do fraud checks. We've already caught about $75 million in 
attempted fraud that should have gone to survivors of 
disasters. We're streamlining our programs to ensure that the 
regional offices work with our disaster relief folks, which had 
never been done before. The agency had broken the regional and 
disaster response efforts apart.
    We're also looking at the first hundred days of President 
Trump's loan volume to ensure that that's being delivered 
quickly. For example, in California, we delivered $2 billion in 
relief within the first a hundred days already surpassing what 
was delivered in all of Biden's last year.
    So, we are on top of it, we have 400 disaster assistance 
specialists in the field right now servicing dozens of 
disasters across the country. And we will be right there 
alongside of you to ensure that your constituents are served.
    Senator Hawley. That's terrific to hear. I know that 
homeowners who are located in the declared disaster area are 
eligible to apply in many cases for SBA personal property 
loans, which I think go up to $40,000 in SBA real property 
loans, which can go up to $200,000. I can just tell you that 
that's going to be very, very important relief for my 
constituents.
    And we are really suffering in Missouri, all over the 
state, to be frank with you. But most recently, particularly in 
the St. Louis and southeast Missouri areas. So, I'm glad to 
hear that you're making this a priority. Thank you for the 
reforms that you have enacted to make sure that there is 
funding available, that you get those teams that specialize in 
this on the ground. I know we'll want to see them in Missouri.
    I realize that a lot of this depends on a major disaster 
declaration. That's what opens up a lot of this relief and on 
the SBA side and makes it available. So, we certainly hope FEMA 
will act on that very, very quickly.
    But thank you again and I look forward to working with you 
to bring relief to the people of Missouri. We're in a lot of 
need right now.
    Senator Loeffler. Thank you, Senator. We'll be there.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you. It's great to see you again. 
You're doing a great job.
    Senator Loeffler. Thank you very much.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Justice [presiding]. Thank you. I now recognize 
Senator Rosen, and we'll go from there.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I want to thank 
you too Administrator Loeffler for joining us here today. I 
just want to make a short comment on what Senators Hickenlooper 
and Hirono have said, because we know that we want to bring 
back U.S. manufacturing so that we can compete.
    But when is the real question, how long does this take to 
happen and how many businesses will suffer or disappear in the 
meantime? And that's what we're really talking about with this 
uncertainty because this puts people's dreams and their life 
work at risk or on the chopping block. So, I think when we talk 
about it, this is that bridge where people's dreams will be 
dissolved.
    So, but I'm going to move on because we've had so many good 
conversations. And I want to talk about the importance of SBA 
as a resource partner. Because SBA's impressive networks of 
Veterans Business Outreach Centers, Small Business Development 
Centers and Women's Business Centers, we know that they provide 
critical support to small businesses across the country. Having 
counseled more than 744,000 small businesses and supported over 
1 million jobs in 2024 alone.
    The tailored support provided by Veterans Business Outreach 
Centers; I'm just going to call them VBOCs a lot easier. It's 
important for my state of Nevada, which is home to more than 
200,000 veterans and over 23,000 veterans' small businesses. We 
only have 3 million people in Nevada. So, it's a good number.
    I was proud to help secure Nevada's first dedicated in-
state VBOC to ensure our veterans in transitioning, service 
members get the support they needed to start a business. And 
so, Administrator, when we spoke ahead of your conversation, we 
really seemed that we connected and shared this priority to 
really support our veteran entrepreneurs. This is your story. 
Bring the value of our community.
    And so, I was really disappointed to see this drastic 167 
million, that was cut from the SBAs Entrepreneurial Development 
Program in the President's budget. And this is going to result, 
sadly, in the closure of hundreds of Business Resource Centers 
in including 31 VBOCs.
    Small businesses are being hit hard, like I said, by the 
Trump tariffs. It's just the uncertainty. People aren't sure 
how to plan. We're not trying to attack anyone. We want to 
bring things back, but people just don't know what to do. And 
they need access to SBA, to the resource partners they've had, 
to the confidence that they have in their communities and those 
connections now more than ever.
    And so, my understanding that your plan to address this 
need is for the SBDC, is to provide the same services 
previously offered by eliminated programs like VBOCs that I so 
appreciate this. But the SBA requested only 10 million in 
additional funding for SBDC to serve veteran-owned businesses. 
It's still 46 percent less in existing funding for the veteran 
services. It's a step forward.
    But in the meantime, again, where are folks going to go and 
how is this expertise, you're losing staff? These centers in my 
small state really help. So does SBA acknowledge that 
organizing all counseling services under SBDCs will make it 
harder for our veterans to access resources and place even more 
pressure on our SBDCs. They are really already strained.
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, thank you for the question. And 
there is no bigger champion of our veterans than President 
Trump, which is why I think we've all seen him upsize the 
Veterans Administration budget by $5 billion. And I'm pleased 
to say, particularly as the daughter and granddaughter of 
veterans, my father started a small business as a result of 
what he learned in the military. That I am so proud to champion 
veterans and deliver even more unified strength and resources. 
We've just announced today an MOU with the Secretary Collins at 
the Veterans Administration to share more resources between the 
small business efforts of the VA----
    Senator Rosen. It's important that veterans often serve 
veterans, and that's what our VBOC give us. They hire veterans 
to serve the veterans who understand the process. So, by 
eliminating them, you've eliminated this kind of unique 
understanding from veteran to veteran.
    Senator Loeffler. Well, I want to correct the assumption 
that we're eliminating VBOC. That's absolutely not the case. In 
fact, the floor of 10 million is a floor, not a ceiling from 
the SBDCs. But let's be clear, there are a thousand SBDCs 
across the country. We have 68 regional offices with veteran 
specialists in those offices. We have PCRs on military----
    Senator Rosen. It took till last year for me to get the 
VBOC in Nevada. So, I just have one more quick question. The 
SBDCs do provide general counseling and business training. And 
so, under your plan, how will SBA ensure that the SBDCs, again, 
to the same point, have the advisors that are specifically 
trained to provide counseling on those unique needs? And how 
long will veteran businesses have to wait for this transition 
to be complete? Because again, it's the uncertainty----
    Senator Loeffler. They don't have to wait at all, Senator, 
which is great. Because I totally agree with you. We need to 
serve our veterans better. And in fact, this week alone, we're 
hosting 15 seminars for our veterans in boots to business and 
reboot across the country. And we're only going to build on 
that.
    In fact, through our partnership with the VA, through our 
work with SBDCs, through our veterans' outreach programs in the 
region, we're consolidating and unifying our services so that 
veterans have access to the full suite of SBA. And I'm very 
proud to say SBA lending to veterans in this calendar year is 
up 26 percent.
    Senator Rosen. Will you come meet with folks in my office 
to I would give us the list of everything that you're doing so 
that we can communicate this out in Nevada and be sure that we 
continue to serve our veteran businesses.
    Senator Loeffler. I'd love to meet you and visit with your 
state as well. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Justice. Well, as soon as I became the chair, 
everybody left. So, so, I mean, maybe they know a whole lot 
more than I know. But you know, Kelly, thanks----
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Justice. Well, thank y'all for staying. I mean, 
thank you so much and everything, but I guess I've got to 
recognize myself now for a few minutes and so, you know, and if 
Kelly, if you'll allow me again to call you Kelly,
    Senator Loeffler. Please, Senator. Yes.
    Senator Justice. I absolutely adore the job you're doing. 
You're doing fantastic work. And God knows this country needs 
manufacturing to come back to the United States. I mean, when 
it really boils right down to it, my little state of West 
Virginia is all about small business and all about 
opportunities, and especially about manufacturing. And so, it 
is so, so important.
    But I've got to tell you this story real quick. Think of 
forestry just for a minute. Think of our trees and what they 
give to all of us. In West Virginia, our hardwoods and only 
West Virginia clean up an equivalency of 21 coal-fired power 
plants a year. You know, if I could be a little bit corny, I 
would say we need to go give our trees a pat on the bark, 
because they do so much for us. It is inflatable.
    But now all of our industry just went away. For the most 
part, all of the cabinetry or the flooring or the furniture is 
gone. And just think what we do now. Let me just be as quick as 
I can be, but think what we do. We cut a tree in West Virginia. 
We cut a third of our growth in West Virginia. The trees are 
growing three times faster than we're cutting them.
    And then what happens is they fall on the ground, and then 
a small grade fire goes through our forest. And all of this 
carbon that's frozen in this right here, right now, it's frozen 
in this, all of it goes right into the atmosphere. What do we 
do? We cut a tree, we dry, kill it. We put it on a truck 
emissions go. We haul it to the port, we put it on a boat. 
Emissions go. We take it to Vietnam, we make something out of 
it, back on a truck, back on a boat, back on another truck. And 
it ends up in Macy's.
    The whole time we're losing our jobs, or we've lost our 
jobs. We're creating more and more and more of a problem, 
because when we make it, this stays right here. It is amazing.
    And with that, Kelly, I would say just to you, this is 
almost a repeat of over and over and over what's happened to 
America. We've spun around 14 times and all of our jobs are 
gone, all of our manufacturing's gone. We can't make anything 
now, and we're really upside down. Give me your thoughts.
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, thank you for your advocacy of 
Made in America. I frankly, was somewhat surprised to hear your 
colleagues advocate for why should we make things in America? 
Why can't we make them offshore? I think you explained 
elegantly, that we have the natural resources, we have the 
productive capability. We can do this again here. And that's 
what the Made in America Manufacturing Finances Act is about, 
is about growing our capabilities in America.
    I mean, we've seen articles where we no longer make 
fasteners in this country, nuts and bolts and screws. Those are 
the things that built America. We have to get back to that. I'm 
so grateful that President Trump believes in American industry 
and the American worker, because we can do that.
    I've walked hundreds of factory floors, I have seen what's 
going on, and these incredibly skilled workers are grateful 
that this President believes in them, an American industry. So, 
I just thank you for fighting for that.
    And at the SBA, not only are we working on expanding the 
loan size, but we're also connecting manufacturers to local 
small businesses, so that small businesses know there are 1 
million suppliers in this country through our Make Onshoring 
Great Again portal, that they can access to ensure that they 
are never again dependent on the Chinese Communist Party for 
their manufacturing needs.
    Senator Justice. I would just end by saying to all of you 
that are here, Kelly didn't need to do this for us. Our 
President really didn't need to do this for us. There's been so 
many folks, and I'm sure there's senators here, there's so many 
folks that have stepped up, but we've got to absolutely follow 
through now, because we're in a mess. We've lost a lot of 
opportunity. And with all that being said, now is the time. Now 
is our time to bring stuff back to the greatest absolute 
workforce and manufacturing folks on the planet. And so, I 
thank you.
    Senator Loeffler. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Justice [continuing]. Wonderful lady Senator 
Shaheen--for five minutes.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's Shaheen. 
You're making me Irish there really quick. [Laughter.]
    Senator Shaheen. But Administrator Loeffler, I appreciate 
your being here. And I think we all support bringing 
manufacturing back to the United States. Actually, the 
manufacturing sector in New Hampshire is the biggest sector of 
our economy. And one of the reasons I'm such a big supporter of 
the SBA, is because the programs that the SBA operates help us 
build our manufacturing sector. That's the whole point.
    And that's why I was concerned when I saw the budget 
requests a 30 percent cut to staffing of district offices. 
Administrator Loeffler, in your confirmation hearing, I asked 
you about ensuring that the district offices have the support 
and the staff they need. And at that time, you said, you have 
my commitment. I'm quoting you now. And you also said, I can 
assure you, we will put an emphasis on the field. But I can 
tell you that New Hampshire's district office started with 
seven staff this year, now they're down to only three.
    I was at the SBA award ceremony in New Hampshire two weeks 
ago, and virtually every small business that got an award, 
talked about the help they received from the SBA or the 
resource partners, the Veteran Business Centers, the Women 
Business Centers, the SCORE Partnership. And I heard a great 
deal of concern about the capacity of the SBDCs to pick up that 
whole load right now, because they don't have the staffing and 
they don't have the budget to do that.
    And so, can you tell me if the New Hampshire and other 
district offices will be exempt from the hiring freeze so they 
can get back to the staff that they need to support local small 
businesses, and will they be able to get the resources they 
need with this level of funding?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, thank you for your question. And 
I continue to reinforce our commitment to the field. In fact, 
not only since joining the SBA when only 10 percent of the 
agency was in office, 90 percent was working from home for four 
years. We brought everyone back to the office, and I committed 
to having 30 percent of our staff in the field. We've already 
done that.
    Our small businesses, that I travel across the country say 
that they've already seen a difference in SBAs activity in the 
field. And that's because not only are we back at work, but we 
have a new mission refocusing on serving small businesses and 
not serving bureaucrats. We're focused on----
    Senator Shaheen. Administrator, I appreciate that. As I 
said, that's why I support the SBA. And I've been a big fan of 
the SBA since I got involved in public service, because I 
understand how important they are. That's why I'm so concerned 
that our SBA office in New Hampshire only has three of the 
seven staff that they had at the start of the year, and they're 
worried about whether they can pay their bills and whether they 
can hire more people.
    So, my question for you is, are they going to be able to be 
exempt from that hiring freeze? Are they going to be able to 
hire those staff back and are they going to have the resources 
to operate that office?
    Senator Loeffler. Yes, we are working on restaffing the 
offices following some of the early voluntary retirements and 
making sure that we focus in on the field again, which again, 
is a critical part of our service and technical support 
delivery along with our resource partners. And so, what we are 
doing is focusing on the field and staffing those offices. And 
I think we're already seeing the impacts because of the 
increased loan volume.
    Senator Shaheen. I'm sorry to interrupt again, but so can 
you give me some timetable for when they might be able to 
expect to be able to do the hiring again, to start that 
process?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, I don't have an exact timetable, 
but I will work with you and your office to ensure that we do 
that and ensure that and we're in constant dialogue, unlike the 
prior Administration, which had essentially abandoned the 
field, we are in constant dialogue with our regional and 
district offices to ensure that staff----
    Senator Shaheen. And I appreciate that, and I'm not 
interested in comparing the last Administration to this 
Administration. I'm interested in seeing what we need to do to 
ensure that our small businesses in New Hampshire get the help 
that they need. And that means staffing the small business 
district office. It means ensuring that those resource agencies 
that are so critical have the help they need. And it means 
making sure that the programs that work for business are 
operated.
    One of those programs is the STEP program, the State Trade 
Expansion Program, which I introduced back in 2010, is part of 
the Small Business Jobs Act. And Chair Ernst and I have worked 
on making some changes to make it work better. I think it's 
really important because 95 percent of markets are outside of 
the United States, and only about 5 percent of our small and 
medium-sized businesses do business outside of the United 
States, as you know.
    This is a program that, again, has really made a difference 
for small businesses in New Hampshire where we do a lot of 
exporting and we're trying to do much better. So that, again, 
is why I was surprised to see that that program got zeroed out 
in the budget request. Can you tell me what's going to replace 
it to help our manufacturers and small businesses get into 
international markets?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, the number one program we can 
have to get into international markets for all small businesses 
is fair trade. That's what President Trump is fighting for. 
When we have fair trade, we do not have to pick winners and 
losers through grant programs to determine who gets to export 
and fight the massive tariff and non-tariff trade barriers that 
all of our small businesses are faced with today.
    So, my focus is in ensuring that everyone has access to 
export markets and ensuring that through our international loan 
and trade export loan programs, that they can have a 
sustainable loan program and not hopefully compete for limited 
resources with a state-based grant, that has a lot of 
bureaucratic costs, delays and complexity compared to just 
competing on a level playing field with fair Trade.
    Senator Shaheen. Well Administrator, I'll tell you what 
that Fair Trade is doing in New Hampshire, because I visited a 
bakery in Derry New Hampshire that was started over 25 years 
ago. It was started to address sugar free baked goods. They do 
85 percent of their business with Canada. They used to have 25 
employees. Now they have two, because the President's tariffs 
have put them out of business.
    And I've visited multiple businesses in New Hampshire who 
are being put out of business by these tariffs. So, while I 
appreciate that that's the President's idea for how to help 
small businesses, we have a lot of small businesses in New 
Hampshire who are not being helped by those tariffs. And so, 
what I want to know is what SBA can do to help those small 
businesses to compensate for the impact that those tariffs are 
having on them. Senator, and that's my question. Thank you, Mr. 
Chaiman.
    Senator Curtis [presiding]. Senator, respectfully, we're a 
little bit over, does the Senator yield?
    Senator Shaheen. I'm finished.
    Senator Curtis. Okay. The Senator's finished. I yield five 
minutes to myself. Administrator, great to have you here. If 
you'll remember, I like to brag about having been a small 
business owner. My father was a small business owner. My 
grandfather was a small business owner. Several of my children 
are small business owners. It's clear the economy of Utah is 
deeply resting on the shoulders of small businesses. So, we 
value what you do and the importance of what you do.
    There's been a lot of discussion recently and today about 
President Trump's liberation day tariffs. I've had a chance to 
travel to my state, and I think it's fair to say that the 
tariffs do have a disproportionate impact on small business. 
They don't have the same resources that larger businesses do to 
sustain those. They don't have as many different options with 
supply chains, as they do.
    And I'd never tried out I guess the President and his 
negotiating style. But also, the uncertainty of they are on 
they are off is also very difficult on our small businesses. 
And I'd just love to have you maybe comment on what we can be 
doing for our small businesses in this environment and what 
your advice is to small businesses and kind of what they can 
expect.
    Senator Loeffler. Thank you, Senator. And I was pleased to 
have the chance to visit your state and travel around small 
business.
    Senator Curtis. Yes. And we'll get you back when I'm there. 
But thank you for going great. Yes.
    Senator Loeffler. That would be great. There's so many 
great small businesses and workforce development programs 
taking place. So, I commend your state and the business-
friendly environment. The SBA is squarely focused on serving 
small businesses through all the challenges that they face and 
the opportunities they face. And fair trade is certainly one of 
those opportunities.
    And what we just discussed was the availability of now 
potentially looking at export markets where small businesses 
have been shut out of too many markets globally. But one of the 
biggest things we can do is strengthen our supply chain by 
making more of our components and parts and materials in 
America. That's why we're having this hearing, is to support 
the Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act.
    And it's a bipartisan as an effort to ensure that after 
more than a decade of not raising loan limits, that small 
businesses, which comprise most manufacturers in America, can 
have access to investing in that incremental CNC machine, 
hiring those workers, expanding the plant, where they've heard 
foreign countries come in and say they want to manufacture in 
America, thanks to President Trump's fair trade policies.
    We've also announced a Make Onshoring Great Again portal, 
which provides access to small businesses. It's a resource of 
about 1 million production and manufacturing facilities in 
America that is searchable by small businesses to see if they 
can source more of their supply chain in America.
    And so, it's through innovative efforts like this, 
expanding access to capital, understanding that there are more 
resources onshore than we might recognize, and then ensuring 
that they have access to our technical resources and loan 
programs to fulfill the potential that this Administration is 
bringing with $10 trillion in investment.
    And, frankly, the biggest thing I hear, too, is the 
upcoming tax cut bill, that's small business' biggest concern 
right now, is that they not be subject to a massive tax 
increase. So, you know, we would love to work with your office 
to hear any other ideas, but right now, I think small 
businesses appreciate that President Trump is fighting for them 
to level the playing field, and so that we can make sure we can 
have Made in America, and ensure that small businesses are no 
longer dependent on the Chinese Communist Party for their 
production.
    Senator Curtis. I think it's hard to find a business, small 
business in Utah that doesn't want President Trump to be not 
just successful, but wildly successful. I think there is a lot 
of patience among our small businesses. At the same time, 
anything the Administration or you can do to signal that you 
get it right, that this is very painful, particularly 
disproportionately painful on our small businesses, I think is, 
is very, very important to do and to help them realize that 
they are being seen and heard.
    And a lot of it for me is when I talk to them, if I'm 
simply able to say, I will deliver your story to Washington, 
that's really what they want. They just want to make sure that 
they're heard.
    Senator Loeffler. Absolutely, Senator. And we are the voice 
for small business, and we know that the President is--there's 
no greater fan of small business than President Trump. He's 
fighting for them. That's what fair trade is about.
    Senator Curtis. Yes. And in reference to the size of your 
offices, one of the things I learned as a small business owner 
is, we sometimes make the mistake that we solve problems by 
hiring more people. And I'm very well aware it's not 
necessarily more people. And I also think we ought to point out 
that every person on that payroll is a dollar, every dollar we 
pay them is a dollar not going into small business programs.
    So, I know that that balance is difficult for you, but I 
just want you to know this Senator appreciates that it's not 
all about the numbers of people. It's more about the quality of 
the services. And with that, I yield my time and I now 
recognize Senator Young.
    Senator Young. Administrator Loeffler, it's really great to 
see you. It was good to see you in Indianapolis. Thanks so much 
for the visit recently, and I think it's appropriate, since we 
visited manufacturing facility that we're here to discuss the 
importance of our manufacturing leadership in this country.
    So, thank you for your support relatedly for advancing the 
goals of my Small Business Technological Advancement Act, that 
will be important to many Hoosier businesses and, and 
manufacturing enterprises.
    I'm especially grateful that its intent has been 
incorporated into your updated standard operating procedures 
in. Effective June 1st of this year, 7(a) loan recipients will 
now be able to use their proceeds for critical modernization 
efforts, digital tools, software, payroll, et cetera. This is a 
significant step forward for small businesses who are seeking 
to stay competitive in this rapidly evolving technological 
landscape. It touches directly on manufacturing, which is what 
we're here to discuss today.
    Let me pivot a bit, if I can to SBIR mills, is something 
you're familiar with. I am sure you are aware, SBIR mills are 
companies that systematically secure numerous SBIR or Small 
Business Innovation Research Awards, often focusing more on 
obtaining grants than on commercializing the resulting 
technologies.
    SBIR program is designed to support small businesses in 
developing innovative technologies, technologies that can make 
them more productive and allow them to pay their workers more, 
so that we can continue to have an ecosystem of good jobs in 
this country, which I know is President Trump's and this 
broader Administration's objective. What impact do SBIR mills 
have on legitimate small businesses trying to enter the 
program, Administrator?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, thank you for the question. And 
also thank you for your leadership on the technology 
enhancements that you helped us make available in the 7(a) loan 
program, because I think we know that small business benefits 
when they can have workflow automation and efficiencies. And 
so, I appreciate your leadership on that.
    Specifically, with regard to Small Business Innovation 
Research mills, more broadly, just thinking in the context of a 
year that where we will be reauthorizing the SBIR program, 
hopefully. And this is an important program that provides the 
development of critical technologies, particularly in the areas 
of defense and healthcare and other areas.
    But what we want to make sure is that the program designs 
as intended, and operates for the benefit of American 
taxpayers, and the small business innovation that is occurring, 
that is absolutely mission critical in many respects to our 
national security, our warfighter's healthcare, and other 
areas.
    So, when SBIR programs are abused to access grants and 
funding without delivering the results, that's something that 
we have to look into. Our teams are already evaluating the 
program effectiveness and the ability for us to audit and 
monitor the participants in the program and the results.
    Admittedly, that program seems to have been adrift in the 
last four years, and I think we need to put guardrails back on 
that in terms of being able to access information. And we will 
continue to share information with your office as we learn more 
about the program to protect it for the intended recipients and 
results.
    Senator Young. Well, I do hope that you stay in touch with 
our office in particular, but more broadly, the committee. I 
know there's a lot of support on this committee. The Chair is 
certainly very supportive of making sure that our legitimate 
small businesses, those that create things of value for people, 
aren't just in operation to extract money from the taxpayer, to 
ensure that they can be as innovative as possible.
    And so, I intend to offer some concrete solutions and, and 
if they're informed by your excellent team's work, that would 
be fantastic. Will you work with me on that?
    Senator Loeffler. Senator, I look forward to working with 
you and this entire committee and appreciate the committee's 
leadership in thinking through that process.
    Senator Young. Thank You. I guess the last thing I would 
ask, is my time runs down here, Administrator just pivoting to 
cybersecurity, something very important to me. As a member now 
of the Intelligence Committee, how does the SBA assess and 
prioritize cybersecurity risks?
    Senator Loeffler. Well, as someone that came out of small 
business senator, I know that for small businesses, it can be a 
disproportionate cost for them to address that. And through our 
work across the country, and our small business development 
centers, we hope to bring expertise to--to make it accessible 
for small businesses, for them to share that information with 
their employees so that they're not inadvertently putting their 
small businesses at risks. And to understand the emerging 
threats that can be happening because that threat environment's 
always changing.
    And so, we'll continue to work with small businesses on the 
innovation front, whether it's cybersecurity, artificial 
intelligence, and other innovations, to keep them at the 
forefront because they're really having to do a lot more with 
less. And we are there to support them.
    Senator Young. Thank you, Chairman.
    Senator Curtis. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Senator 
Husted for five minutes.
    Senator Husted. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to 
thank you Administrator Loeffler for being here today. Thank 
you very much. I know that you have been traveling the country 
on the America Manufacturing Initiative and Made in America.
    I always say as a representative of Ohio, that you can't do 
Made in America without Made in Ohio, although my friends from 
Indiana would feel the same way. Right? We're such a big part 
of the supply chain for our economic and national security, 
because you have to make it here. You have to be able to make 
it here in times of crisis if, we're going to secure our 
national security and provide for our economic security.
    And I'll also mention that as I've been talking to Ohio 
manufacturers, particularly small businesses, they raise this 
in the context of China and tariffs, that they have no recourse 
if their items are--if their patents are violated, if their 
products are stolen. And that's something that I know that you 
and led by President Trump care a lot about. And so, I would 
encourage you to continue to be a strong voice for that.
    But I want to touch on the 7(a) loan program. As I have 
learned, as I look at manufacturing, I've learned that a lot of 
small manufacturers over the course of the Biden Administration 
saw that fewer loans were being made in that sector. We saw a 
drop of nearly 2 percent in the number of loans that were given 
to manufacturers.
    Manufacturing, in my experience, need the loans almost as 
much as anybody because of the capital cost involved in 
manufacturing, particularly with the new technologies and the 
additive manufacturing space. Super important for them to have 
to be able to finance the new technologies that will add to 
manufacturing.
    And just your thoughts on that program and then anything 
that you might want to share that you've learned from your tour 
in the space that I've talked about as you've been traveling 
the country.
    Senator Loeffler. Absolutely. Thank you, Senator, and I 
look forward to visiting manufacturers in Ohio.
    Senator Husted. And we want you to come see us. [Laughter.]
    Senator Loeffler. Great, of course. Well, first of all, the 
data that we have on our manufacturing loans, both for 7(a) and 
for 504, demonstrate that there is great demand and growth in 
manufacturing loans. And we've seen a 74 percent increase in 
the 504, I'm sorry, the 7(a) loan program relative to President 
Biden's first hundred days. We've seen a 38 percent increase 
overall in the 504 and 7(a) loans combined.
    And where we've had conversations with both lenders and our 
manufacturers, is that the loan limits make the loans less 
attractive. Like the limit of $5 million has represented a 
somewhat artificially low cap now about 15 years after the last 
increase was made. So, providing the $10 million loan cap will 
help us attract more manufacturing loans to provide more 
capital.
    I've talked to manufacturers that have already identified 
the equipment and the workforce that they're going to hire once 
they can expand the access to capital, and as well have the 
certainty of the tax bill that's in Congress right now.
    So, we feel that manufacturing is spring-loaded in America. 
We see manufacturers extremely bullish on the opportunities 
they've heard from, as I've gone around this country, they've 
heard from domestic contacts and international contacts that 
more people want Made in America. And so, we see tremendous 
need for workforce as well. And that's been an effort that 
following the conversations we've had with manufacturers, is 
that we've ramped up our focus on a skilled workforce.
    I've visited several technical schools, career academies, 
and seeing the great work going on there. The type of training, 
whether it's CNC machines or welding or HVAC and the like, the 
tremendous skilled workforce that we have coming in the 
pipeline's exciting. It's not just a focus on STEM, but it's on 
building things. It's making manufacturing a hot industry. As 
my friend Ann calls it, a new color boom, which means we're 
integrating technology with manufacturing, and we see 
tremendous demand for those jobs.
    And it's a great path and really addresses the challenge 
we've had in the last 30, 40 years where our working 
communities have been just hollowed out and decimated due to 
the loss of those jobs. We are going to rebuild those in this 
country. And I think the SBA is going to be a part of that.
    Senator Husted. I would just in closing share with you on 
the workforce side of things, that we are seeing a resurgence 
in this country of more high school students graduating career 
ready through the tech schools, through career tech education 
in their classrooms and through apprenticeships. A growing 
desire for more students to see that as a more cost-effective 
pathway into the workforce.
    But I also caution that in a lot of states we have a 
demographic problem, that we literally have more people between 
the ages of 55 and 64 than we do between 15 and 24, which means 
that we're going to have to be great at this if we're going to 
supply that high tech workforce and manufacturing workforce for 
the future.
    Senator Loeffler. Absolutely. And we'll be focused on 
training and retraining as well, because we know that there's a 
great skilled workforce out there that is ready to get back to 
work, so we'll be focused on that. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Husted. Thank you for being here today.
    Senator Loeffler. Thank You.
    Senator Curtis. Thank you. I want to thank our 
Administrator Loeffler for being here with us today. I ask 
unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain 
open for two weeks for members to submit questions, revise and 
extend the remarks, and submit additional information to the 
record. And without objection, so ordered.
    With that, the Committee on Small Business and 
Entrepreneurship stands adjourned. Thank you so much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:26 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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